During a discussion with my cousin Joe I asked him what steps he would take to end the war in Iraq. His response (after qualifying that I might not like it) was that we should simply ‘dust’ people at funerals.
I submit this as evidence that such tactics usually don’t lead to peace:
The CIA reported in a classified assessment this fall that it has found no evidence that Iran is pursuing a clandestine nuclear weapons program parallel to its declared energy research, The New Yorker reported today (see GSN, Nov. 15).
The following is an anonymous post, no way to determine if the person really is a police officer, but his points are valid.
police POV (Score:5, Interesting)
by Anonymous Coward* on Tuesday November 21, @01:38AM
(*Slashdot software automatically assigns that name to non-signed-in users -MDW)
As a police officer, I have two things to say about this:
This kid sounds like an ass and I’m certain that there will be more than enough “He got what he deserved posts.” I might even agree in the moral sense, but not in the ethical or legal sense, because…
This cop should never work in law enforcement again. This is inappropriate use of force by any professional standard. One post is not nearly enough to recount the things he did incorrectly, but I’ll hit the high points;
General rules for any controlled encounter (one where you aren’t in danger from the get go) include finding out what the issue is, telling the subject what he/she needs to do, and explaining what will happen if they do not. There is almost never a need to place your hands on anyone for any reason until you are ready to take them into custody unless you are suddenly attacked. This “officer” is grossly incompetent. Understand we deal with aggressive people that posture by yelling and swearing at us all the time – this should not disrupt the officer on bit. Keep. Your. Cool. So, screaming/swearing or not, this encounter should have been over with three sentences from the officer.
“Sir, per university rules and regs, I need you to show me your valid student ID or leave the library.”
“I need to to show me your valid student ID or leave the library right now, or I’ll have to take you into custody for trespassing and disturbing the peace.”
“Sir, I am placing you under arrest.” Then Mirandize him and be done with it. If he does anything but exactly what you tell him (“Sir, place your hands behind your back.”) then…
Now and only now, if he/she resists (NOT if he simply fails to cooperate i.e. passive resistence), you may use force sufficient to subdue him to the point of having him cease to be a danger to the officer or bystanders. That’s pretty simple stuff, folks. Basically, never be the first to use force, but when you do – do it quickly and overwhelmingly then STOP when he’s restrained. You are a trained professional who owns the situation and NOT a street brawler.
From what I can tell, he never told the subject he was under arrest until after at least five taserings, some of which occurred while he was in cuffs and all but the first while he was on the ground unable to stand under his own power. This “officer” grabbed the guy’s arm while he was leaving. Bad move, even if it seems like a little thing. Physical contact constitutes use of force, and any trained officer knows this is a big line to cross. I don’t care if he didn’t leave immediately – in that case place him calmly in custody early on and be done with it, no argument needed. You’re the cop; you NEVER need to be in an argument. You aren’t asking him what he wants to do, you’re telling him. Never ever let a subject think they are in control. Arguing tells the subject they have some power.
What he did is inexcusable. If this power-tripping bully didn’t have a badge what would you think of somebody tasering a defenseless person on the ground FIVE TIMES some while he was handcuffed and yelling at him to “get up.” A badge doesn’t free you from responsibility, it adds to to it exponentially.
This sadistic SOB gives all true professional LEOs a bad name and is part of the reason so many distrust cops. I’ve had training on most of the common less-than-lethal systems (lawyers don’t let us call them non-lethal) including tasers, stun guns, pepper spray, rubber bullets and even conducted some training on the same. Unless this guy was issued a system with no training, he knows damn well the individual won’t be getting up immediately after one tasing, let alone five. Frankly, I hope this guy answers for assault charges.
To summarize, to non-cops this might appear to be a case of overreacting during a tense moment with a belligerent person. To most professionals, this is about as vanilla an arrest as there is where the cop did basically everything wrong. So wrong, in fact, I intend to use these videos as a training aid.
This was so absurd that I actually laughed when the guy threatened to to taser the bystander who asked for his name and badge number. It’s almost like he was trying to get fired and sued.
Police in 5 states sue Taser in past 2 weeks (note – this story first appeared in 2005 -MDW)
The Arizona Republic
Aug. 20, 2005 12:00 AM Police officers in five states filed lawsuits against Scottsdale-based Taser International over the past two weeks claiming they were seriously injured after being shocked with the electronic stun gun during training classes.
TASER International Inc. maintains that its stun-guns are â€œchanging the world and saving lives everyday.â€ There is no question that they changed Jack Wilsonâ€™s life. On Aug. 4, in Lafayette, Colo., policemen on a stakeout approached Jackâ€™s son Ryan as he entered a field of a dozen young marijuana plants. When Ryan took off running, officer John Harris pursued the 22-year-old for a half-mile and then shot him once with an X-26 Taser. Ryan fell to the ground and began to convulse. The officer attempted cardiopulmonary resuscitation, but Ryan died.
“It is a real mistake to treat a Taser as some benign thing that painlessly brings people under control,” said Peter Eliasberg, managing attorney at the ACLU of Southern California.
“The Taser can be incredibly violent and result in death,” Eliasberg said.
According to an ACLU report, 148 people in the United States and Canada have died as a result of the use of Tasers since 1999.
During the altercation between Tabatabainejad and the officers, bystanders can be heard in the video repeatedly asking the officers to stop and requesting their names and identification numbers. The video showed one officer responding to a student by threatening that the student would “get Tased too.” At this point, the officer was still holding a Taser.
Such a threat of the use of force by a law enforcement officer in response to a request for a badge number is an “illegal assault,” Eliasberg said.
“It is absolutely illegal to threaten anyone who asks for a badge [number],” that’s assault,” he said.
Update – Read this. Excerpt: “The Meritorious Service/Taser Award was presented to Officers Joseph Eubank, Ethan Shear, Kevin Kay and Dan Jermansen for successfully subduing a patient without harm after he threatened staff at the Neuropsychiatric Hospital with metal scissors.”
It is to our deep national shameâ€”and ultimately it will be to the Presidentâ€™s deep personal regretâ€”that he has followed his Secretary of Defense down the path of trying to tie those loyal Americans who disagree with his policiesâ€”or even question their effectiveness or executionâ€”to the Nazis of the past, and the al Qaeda of the present.
I think this is Stephanie Baum – such hate with such glee:
I think that last line is a reference to the ‘Darkest Days’ post and is even more repellent than the ‘Not So Bonita’ remarks* days after Marilyn’s death. Not to mention proves someone’s still stalking me. So much for cyber security cough. But every time they pull this nasty shit I’m going to publish about so that people will have a reference going forward. Eventually there will be enough dots. Note how this person always calls me out by name but hides behind a pseudonym – which the Times-Call conveniently refuses to reveal the email to. I’m certain the Longmont police could (or have?) found out but I don’t know. The law about defaming the dead that they so vigorously shook in my face expired recently – and LongmontEats.com appeared within days. Sigh. An entire site just to attack me and spit on Marilyn’s grave again. Hardly civil at all.
The ‘coniptions’ being referenced are my efforts to have personal attacks on myself, my daughter and Kimberly Gibbs removed, as well as some fairly acid quips in response to vicious hateful remarks (that remained published**). Also, pointing out that the smears on Gibbs were being coordinated with Facebook users in other states seemed to really inflame the howler monkeys since that’s one of Mile-Hi’s favorite tactics on Facebook.
This is the kind of deeply evil hatred that is the calling card of the self-proclaimed ‘first lady’ of Longmont and the Jr. Birdmen and I believe it’s still being enabled by the Times-Call.
I understand the TC building was sold recently.
What bridge will these trolls hide under when the TC is gone?
Update 5/25/15 – Gee, somebody’s pissed off… clearly I hit nerve.
Yet another sockpuppet has appeared: Not_NORML – go take a look at their comments – all 1,928. Now there’s a person with an opinion – and I suspect a mental hygiene problem. Hmm. Who in this community crows about their prolific hate? Hmm. Here’s all the comments – note how quickly they’re posted.
5/25/15 11:25 AM – “Doug – Kim lives where? Gunbarrel. Where do you live?“
FRL – note, calls me by name but hiding behind a pseudonym. Want to bet money this is an Airport Committee Chairman trying desperately to preserve his public image yet vent his painfully swollen spleen?
Eight minutes later… (takes that long to read comments if you’re sounding out the words)
5/25/15 11:33 AM – “In your wildest dreams. The TC is not going under, and that would make you unhappy. You think of TC as your competition. Your head is swelled. Ownership change and reorganization could be a good thing for Free Range Longmont, but it might appear that FRL is going under. What’s really fun here is to see TC moderators remove your comments. Perhaps they understand that you can’t really be too annoyed, since that is precisely your job function at FRL – quashing free speech.“
FRL – Actually, I think of the TC as a symptom of a disease that was killing this town. Happy to say it seems to be abating. My head may be swelled, but it’s with pride – because I’ve nettled cowardly little pricks like you, who skulk around behind masks and wouldn’t know a civil discussion if one bit them on the ass. Yes, it might appear FRL is going under, if you’re smoking eight or nine stogies a day and guzzling Coronas. Seriously, get help. I’m sure it’s fun watching my comments get removed – your entire life is trying to silence others, being a raging narcissist. I’m not really annoyed, more amused at the funhouse foolishness of that so-called ‘news’ site.
Eleven minutes later… (Not_NORML must have had to look some words up)
5/25/15 11:44 AM – “And we see that you’re equally unimpressed by Judge LaBuda. It’s so clear to all that LaBuda is a skydiver and clearly should not have been assigned this case. No matter, you will find something that puts the judge’s decision in doubt. I know – She doesn’t live in Longmont!“
FRL – I’m unimpressed with any judge that can’t understand ‘telegraphing’ a punch. The visits to homes should have been done without announcement. Bad call.
Eleven more minutes. Someone is really pissed, they keep adding to their little rant.
5/25/15 11:55 AM – So you admit that you like taking pictures of kids, and a rather good looking woman dressed in a tight outfit turns you off. Yes, it is your right …
Duh. What grandparent doesn’t like taking pictures of kids. Not sure what you’re implying? “…rather good looking…” Really? *shrug* Some people think this is cute. To each their own. Tight? *chuckle* I think ‘ill-fitting’ is the term you’re groping for. Yes, it IS my RIGHT and you can bet your sweet bippy I’ll keep USING IT.
Eight minutes later – clearly still pissed off. So much for the Coronas.
5/25/15 12:03 PM – A list of the folks that FRL and Doog find as important contributors. It’s a long list and only a few photos. It’s pretty likely that that Doog doesn’t have a contribution relationship with them, he just lifts their writings for his web site. Important for this issue is that most of the FRL contributors do not live in Longmont.
Thank you for pointing out our 125 contributors who are all listed by first and last name, unlike other ‘blogs’ that are basically a tiny cabal of hatemongers who hide behind masks and do nothing to raise the dialogue. There’s not a lot of pictures because not a lot of people use the Gravatar system which adds the image. Wow, what stunning ignorance of the web. If this is Stephanie Baum she just underlined her incompetence. As for ‘lifts’ (as in stolen?) nothing on FRL has been published without written permission and the overwhelming majority are written specifically for us. I do have a relationship with most of my writers. That last line is a lie, plain and simple, the large majority of FRL contributors are Longmonters who publish with us precisely because we don’t allow these kinds of attacks.
* You should own up to this.
** The Times-Call is finally starting to pay some attention but it’s still clearly not a priority.